Oregon Public Broadcasting

A warning before we conduct this next interview.

We will examine the case of Heather Snively, a Beaverton woman who was killed on Friday and her baby taken.

Some details of the case are graphic and disturbing.

Kristian Foden-Vencil has been following it and joins us live in the studio.

Kristian: Good Morning.

Geoff: This case has attracted national attention and is raising questions about when a newborn baby is legally considered to be alive.

Kristian: Right.

Geoff: But before we get into those details, we need to pin down some of the facts. Karina Roberts was arrested on Friday and was arraigned on one charge of murder yesterday. Wat else do we know for sure?

Kristian: What we do know is that Heather Snively was a 21-year-old woman, who moved to Oregon a few weeks ago. She came to be with her fiance and the father of her child, Chris Popp. She was about eight months pregnant and due in July.

Somehow, and police think it was perhaps through the webpage Craigslist, Snively got to know Korena Roberts, who lived in Beaverton with her boyfriend and two children. The two are thought to have made contact about swapping baby clothes.

Police say Roberts had been telling people for at least the last six months that she was pregnant. But, they don't believe she was.

On Friday afternoon there was a call from a man about an infant in distress. Police say he was told how to give the infant CPR then medics arrived. Roberts and the baby were taken to the hospital, but it was quickly ascertained she had not just given birth. Police returned to the home and found the body of Heather Snively in a crawl space.

I talked to Sergeant David Thompson outside the Washington County Sheriffís court, and he says the medical examiner found in an autopsy that Snively died of homicidal violence.

Here's how he described what happened, and again, a warning to our listeners that this is graphic.

David Thompson: "He was unable to determine at this time if it was due to blunt force trauma to the head or a cutting injury to her stomach. Her stomach was cut open, the infant was removed from her womb. Weíre not sure if that was post mortem or premortem, and at this point he needs to do some more investigation into the cause of death for the infant. We havenít determined that. If the infant boy was dead before he came out of Ms. Snively or after."

Kristian: A few other facts before we talk about legal issues around the baby's death.

Robert's boyfriend has not been charged with anything at this point. Police say they think he believed she was pregnant and he has an alibi for the time Snively was killed.

Roberts is being held without bail. Sheís on a suicide watch. But police aren't saying whether she has a history of mental illness.

Geoff: So as far as a prosecution is concerned what are the critical factors with regard to the child and any charges that might stem from the child's death?

Kristian: Yes, this is one of the areas where the case gets legally complex. The district attorney wants to know whether the baby died in utero or whether he was alive at anytime outside the womb.

It's an important point, not only because the case could turn into a double homicide if the baby was breathing on his own, but if he died in utro and the DA wanted to pursue a murder case, it could involve some of the same legal  issues that we've heard come up in the abortion debate -- around when life begins.

Here's Washington County DA, Bob Hermann.

Bob Hermann: "There still needs to be some lab analysis and steps taken to ascertain that issue and of course that issue is: Was the child alive at all at any point in time."

Kristian: "And when does someone start to live. Is that as soon as they're delivered or before that?"

Bob Hermann: "Well that's part of what we're looking into in terms of the complete legal issue. It's traditionally been taking a breath. And in some circumstances it's easier than others to have that information available. In a case like this of course we're trying to look at all aspects or all and talk to people to see if there's any evidence of that."

Geoff: It's a shocking case Kristian, and tempting to say we've never seen anything like it before. But would that be correct?

Kristian: No, it wouldn't.

This kind of tragedy is rare, but it's not unprecedented.

In 2002, the Journal of Forensic Science published a study by four doctors on what they call "cesarean section kidnapping." They found that abductors often try to build a rapport with a mother while also planning an operation.

Sometimes they do it for money, but more often it appears to be an effort to cement a failing relationship or to fulfill a deeply felt desire to bear a child. Police Sergeant Dave Thompson says heís heard of it before.

David Thompson: "Yeah I don't know of any previous cases in Oregon, which would be the only ones that apply to us in terms of court proceedings. But psychologically, I've heard of this several times across the country. It does seem to be a common series of events when you look at the stories."

Kristian: One other issue I'd like to mention Geoff.

Police are asking anyone who's pregnant and may have had contact with Roberts or someone who might have caused them concern, to come forward and share their information.

Geoff: And the next step?

Kristian: Well detectives are continuing to investigate. We are also awaiting more information from the medical examiner.

A grand jury will have to be sworn in. Roberts is scheduled to appear before the court again on June 15th.